I really enjoyed this next interview with NYC-based Keval Amin and Nikhil Jhunjhnuwala. They're already on project number three of what I'm sure will be many more exciting law startup projects to come.
Tell me about yourselves
We’ve known each other since fifth grade, since we lived a
couple of houses away from each other. I think we met on the school bus. We
also both went to Rutgers together, and then parted ways—Keval went to design
school, and Nikhil went to law school at USC. Keval’s original idea was to do
industrial design for things like plates and silverware. While learned about
that process, he learned about how business works. Nikhil was in law school for
his 1L year and realized that the law isn’t very complicated—it just needs to
be simplified for lay people.
I know you guys have a lot of projects going on, so tell me
about those.
In 2011, our first company was MyRight—a WebMD of law. WebMD
has a symptom checker, and Nikhil had this idea of seeing whether the common
person could put in symptoms and get an answer. Through talking to Keval, we
were able to synthesize something real.
We got into StartEngine, an LA accelerator program, for that, and were
able to get cash and mentorship to shape the company. We were too ambitious
though, and really needed more cash than we’d originally thought. After the
technical cofounder left in January 2013, we decided to pivot.
We then started LegalCrunch, an expungement service. For
those unfamiliar with expungement, if you have a criminal record, expunging the
record essentially clears criminal history from public record. We developed in
a matter of weeks an automated system where people with criminal records can
take an eligibility test using several factors to determine whether we can help
them with their expungement. If so, the system will generate paperwork for the
customer to sign and mail. In less than a year, we’re already generating
revenue with LegalCrunch in just New Jersey and Ohio.
Recently, we created Legitimo, a mobile app targeting the
Spanish-speaking population that helps people do contracts. It came randomly—we
had just moved to New York, and there was a Spanish-language themed hackathon
sponsored by a Latino organization. We wanted to get involved in the startup
scene, so we showed up and came up with the idea at the Hackathon. The app can
create a simple contract in under a minute in both Spanish and English.
Legitimo is Spanish for “legit.” In our market testing, the
latino community would read our company name and understand it. In fact, our
tagline is “it’s legit.”
We’re targeting a demographic that tends to be a cash-based
community that really needs legal protection. When Nikhil was in law school he
used to volunteer at several legal aid clinics, and anyone who spoke Spanish
was an invaluable asset.
Tell me a bit about what you learned from the MyRight
experience.
We learned so much, it’s hard to know where to begin. By
far, we learned that failing is not a reason to stop doing what someone is
really passionate about. We could have quit when our tech cofounder left, but
we’re passionate about legal innovation and creating a company. After just one
month of LegalCrunch, we were already making small amounts of revenue. We also
got a lot of perspective—there’s lots of room for innovation in law, but it’s
also more difficult to introduce that innovation than in other industries.
Lawyers and bar associations push back, and you have to deal with lawyers who are
litigious by nature. But despite all the obstacles, we still stay because of
the potential for impact and change.
Now that you’re done with MyRight, do you think a WebMD of law
is feasible?
I think it’s feasible. It takes a lot more investment of
resources and energy than we initially thought it would. MyRight is something
we’d like to put out there and integrate with something we do in the future. It’s
not very far-fetched or crazy technology. Others are doing something similar in
a narrower sense. Our biggest weakness was that we lacked a business model—we
were giving people free information, but there was no solid business plan at
the time, so we had to pivot. Whereas with LegalCrunch, we put a website up and
created a kit in a few weeks without too much planning.
Expungements have a very narrow target market. How do you
advertise?
We’ve learned to respond to the things our target
demographic looks for. Whereas MyRight targeted a board range of legal topics,
LegalCrunch is narrower. We write articles to be ranked in SEO by Google, and
are also using Pay Per Click (PPC). We also partner with lots of
lawyers—usually solo practitioners.
Are you looking to expand into other topics aside from
expungement?
Maybe later. We’re using expungement as an entry point into
document automation, but there’s already a lot on our plate.
Why did you start off in New Jersey and Ohio?
We’re from New Jersey. Ohio recently passed an expungement
law that made more people eligible than before, so it was a good opportunity.
How does UPL figure into your startup?
You have to address UPL if you are a law startup, but we’re
not practicing law. We are an information service and document preparation
service.
What’s been your greatest challenge?
In a startup, you have to wear a lot of different hats, play
lots of different roles, and you’re always thrown in to something you don’t
know anything about. It’s not easy. Also, in law, there’s not a lot of leeway
to do innovative things. It’s hard to market law and it’s not very fun. All the
other legal websites out there try to create an aura of credibility or
authority, but that’s not really in line with our personality. We want to make
law accessible, not intimidating or scary, but it’s hard to change people’s perceptions.
There are surveys out there in which 70-80% of consumers have a negative
reaction when law is mentioned. We try to position LegalCrunch to instill some
confidence in consumers, but still have dinosaurs and fun characters on the
website to give people a sense of comfort.
Conversely, what’s been your greatest success?
There are so many tiny wins, but to us, they’re huge wins.
Little milestones add up. For example, we were thrilled when we got our first customer,
and when we helped clear our first person’s expungement. People have come to us
and said, “you are my only hope. I can’t afford a lawyer.” We try the best we
can without committing UPL by being a helpful resource. A number of people have
told us that they didn’t know where else to turn to. They were so grateful, and
those thank yous are very motivating. We’re also thrilled we’ve been able to
gain credibility in just a few months. Government agencies, probation officers,
and unemployment offices have started to refer customers to us. It’s slow, but
it’s happening.
Any advice to aspiring legal entrepreneurs?
Don’t give up. You’ll
probably fail a lot and get frustrated, but the more failures you have, the
more you success you may have in the future. There are a lot of obstacles in
this field, but you’re making real change. It’s easy to make a social app or
cat website, but its more fulfilling and challenging to be in this field. We
need more legal startups out there.
How have you two managed to sustain yourselves financially
throughout this process?
We had about 9 months worth of investment money for MyRight. We moved back home to sustain LegalCrunch, though eventually moved to (and currently live in) New York City, which has afforded us a number of opportunities in the law tech space, including starting Legitimo. For those
contemplating doing a regular job or side job, make sure its something easy
that you enjoy, since you’ll be doing that 9-5 and still have to come home and
work some more. Don’t do something you don’t care about. Many people with side
jobs still work in law during the day. We also have moved home. It’s not too
bad. It’s best if you have a clear vision. You really get to understand who you
are as a person. You’ll have a lot of doubts, and there will always be mornings
when you wake up and ask, “why am I doing this? I could have been normal.” It’s
easy to give up, but we want to let others out there contemplating a law
startup that it’s okay to move up and give up a normal lifestyle.
Nikhil, any plans to return to law school?
Maybe. It’s not something that’s out of the question. I’m not
sure I’d practice law, but I wouldn’t be opposed to just finishing the degree.
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